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Bloggar > kzoopair > Take two- they're small

Why We Fight  

kzoopair 73M/71K
8366 inlägg
5/6/2020 3:34 pm
Why We Fight

There were newsreels during World War Two called "Why We Fight" by Frank Capra. They were intended as morale boosters for the American public admonishing them not to lose heart and remind them of what they were up against. I recently made a comment on a friend's post about why there are protests and why some of them deteriorate into violence.

In a society where property is valued more than human life, property destruction is a legitimate act of protest.

I value my own property too. I feel for the minority and small business owners who been robbed and pillaged in the violence. But understanding why this happens repeatedly in America is helpful. It's an act of rage. Of course there are opportunists who will take advantage of the chaos to commit crimes. This isn't any different from the wealthy and powerful creating distractions like phony voter fraud or a fake immigration invasion to rob us blind while we're focused on the fraudulent crisis.

The problem in America is systemic and it's our original sin, racism. Black people feel they have no voice and no value in the United States because they have no voice and no value. It isn't complicated. Rioting is the one way they feel they will be heard and seen in this moment. When things get this bad, this fraught with fear and anger, innocent people will always suffer and that's what's happening to many innocent business owners.

As for the head shaking and tsk-tsking about black people destroying their own neighborhoods in a riot, would whites feel better about it if they got on a bus and came to YOUR neighborhood to riot?

I think most- the majority by far- of the protestors are peaceful. They start out that way and they finish that way. They are coached by their leaders to remain peaceful. But there are factions at work trying to subvert what they're trying to do by inciting violence and some members of those factions are policemen. White supremacists and neo-nazis are playing a game here. Some of them are policemen too. By creating chaos and destroying property they're trying to discredit the integrity of the Black Lives Matter movement. They attack and assault men, women and children who are exercising their first amendment rights of freedom of speech and freedom of assembly. We can't let them win and we can't allow them to distract our attention from the very real issue of racist police brutality.

Black Lives Matter is a righteous movement with a truly just cause. We have to help them win. We will all be better for it. It's why they fight.
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kzoopair 73M/71K
25831 inlägg
5/6/2020 3:37 pm

 It's why they fight.
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mufdiver69er2 63M  
1953 inlägg
5/6/2020 4:56 pm

 im gonna make a statement but first i would like to ask just this...read what i am saying and think on it before replying? i quote you as saying we have to help them...highlighting the WE and THEM..i believe that as long as we think as us and them instead of WE..we being all humans together..we are doomed to be apart and not really come together..one thing i can never forget is doctor king saying when his children would be judged by the content of their character instead of their color,that his dream would become real. i hope to see it but until there is no more we and them..just us..i dont see it happening..im not saying you and a bunch of others here dont have good intentions..im just trying to point out that mindsets may need further adjustment before real change happens..im not one who usually posts this much to blogs but it was weighing on me and thanks in advance..
woop woop


kzoopair 73M/71K
25831 inlägg
5/6/2020 6:16 pm
    Citera bilover1916:
    Thank you very much another sad liberal ALL LIVES MATTER NOT JUST BLACK LIVES ANYONE WHO BELIVES THAT IS A FOOL..
You're ignorant and I don't forgive you for it. You've had fifty four years to become a compassionate and caring man and you failed. No one is saying white lives don't matter. No one is saying red, yellow or brown lives don't matter. Because they're singled out for brutal treatment and even murder by American police they're saying "Black Lives Matter". They're tired of their sisters, brothers, fathers and friends murdered by the police.

I don't expect to change your mind. You clearly aren't bright enough to get the lesson.

And I'm no fool. Go fuck yourself- that's all you're gonna get from this site given your attitude.
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kzoopair 73M/71K
25831 inlägg
5/6/2020 6:22 pm
    Citera mufdiver69er2:
    im gonna make a statement but first i would like to ask just this...read what i am saying and think on it before replying? i quote you as saying we have to help them...highlighting the WE and THEM..i believe that as long as we think as us and them instead of WE..we being all humans together..we are doomed to be apart and not really come together..one thing i can never forget is doctor king saying when his children would be judged by the content of their character instead of their color,that his dream would become real. i hope to see it but until there is no more we and them..just us..i dont see it happening..im not saying you and a bunch of others here dont have good intentions..im just trying to point out that mindsets may need further adjustment before real change happens..im not one who usually posts this much to blogs but it was weighing on me and thanks in advance..
I use "we and them" as a way of differentiating between the leaders in the movement and the people- like me- who support them. This is their fight but they need backup from the rest of us. I don't think I am separate from black Americans. We're all fellow citizens. I support feminists but I'm not a woman. It means I stand behind them. We're all in this together but some of us belong in the background assuring that their voices are heard.
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smartasswoman 66K  
35813 inlägg
5/6/2020 7:23 pm

 This sounds so familiar

As for "we" and "they"....I think it's just the reality right now. As a white person I can support and help, while at the same time realizing that my privileged life experience is never going to be the same.

One of my friends posted something to the effect of, "all of you white people who have been scared for the past week that your home or business might be burned...maybe that'll give you some empathy toward what black people have felt for the past 400 years."


thikhead 67M
Be mig om ett foto
3346 inlägg
5/6/2020 8:28 pm

 QUOTING: kzoopairs response to mufdiver69er2:

good points by both of you.

indeed a very difficult subject to talk about at all,
let alone find the "perfect words".

kudos to both of you for great steps in the right direction
in respectful discussion.
"well only get through this if we work together. if we dont, none of us will"


kzoopair 73M/71K
25831 inlägg
5/6/2020 8:48 pm
    Citera smartasswoman:
    This sounds so familiar

    As for "we" and "they"....I think it's just the reality right now. As a white person I can support and help, while at the same time realizing that my privileged life experience is never going to be the same.

    One of my friends posted something to the effect of, "all of you white people who have been scared for the past week that your home or business might be burned...maybe that'll give you some empathy toward what black people have felt for the past 400 years."
You and I can only imagine what it's like to be black in America. I think if you're black though you have a pretty fair take on what it would be like to be white. Until black lives really do matter, it will still be we and they. I don't want it that way and I know you don't either.
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kzoopair 73M/71K
25831 inlägg
5/6/2020 8:55 pm
    Citera thikhead:
    QUOTING: kzoopairs response to mufdiver69er2:

    good points by both of you.

    indeed a very difficult subject to talk about at all,
    let alone find the "perfect words".

    kudos to both of you for great steps in the right direction
    in respectful discussion.
Thank you. I'm hesitant to insert myself into someone else's cause as if I were one of the principals. But it's a fine and a just cause and I WILL speak up about that. It is OUR movement but my place isn't in front unless I'm invited to be there.
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Owatalife 67M
1711 inlägg
6/6/2020 1:05 am

 Right on brother well said. Yes this country needs to be shaken up substantially and many folks need to realise we are part of the problem. The police need to be reeled in & the absurd military & prison industrial complex we have built up has to stop. You can't be the world leader in putting your own people behind bars and expect a just society.


kzoopair 73M/71K
25831 inlägg
6/6/2020 10:33 am
    Citera Owatalife:
    Right on brother well said. Yes this country needs to be shaken up substantially and many folks need to realise we are part of the problem. The police need to be reeled in & the absurd military & prison industrial complex we have built up has to stop. You can't be the world leader in putting your own people behind bars and expect a just society.
I think you and I are gonna get along just fine. Nice to e-meet you!

America is a great country and a fraud at the same time. But the way it's been behaving lately is losing us friends and losing us respect.
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keithcancook 67M
18358 inlägg
6/6/2020 10:27 pm

 Hullo kzoo! Good to see you again!

I believe these events will evolve into more than race only. Class division has increased in the decades of my professional life. A reckoning has been coming for this imbalance.

blog on!


kzoopair 73M/71K
25831 inlägg
6/6/2020 11:15 pm
    Citera keithcancook:
    Hullo kzoo! Good to see you again!

    I believe these events will evolve into more than race only. Class division has increased in the decades of my professional life. A reckoning has been coming for this imbalance.

    blog on!
It's good to dee you too Keith.

It's always been about class. Alliances between poor whites and blacks terrified the southern aristocracy so much that they tossed a few bones to poor white farmers and convinced them that they were special because of their white skin and they've been playing and winning that game ever since. It's easy enough to dupe folks who can't read and have no contact with the outside world. Racism was one more tool to keep poor folk and slaves at each others' throats. Now it's become a part of the culture.

A reckoning is overdue. Whether this is the beginning or not I don't know. But I do know it warms my heart to see black and white embracing this movement and tackling the protests together, as it always should have been.
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keithcancook 67M
18358 inlägg
7/6/2020 5:04 pm
    Citera kzoopair:
    It's good to dee you too Keith.

    It's always been about class. Alliances between poor whites and blacks terrified the southern aristocracy so much that they tossed a few bones to poor white farmers and convinced them that they were special because of their white skin and they've been playing and winning that game ever since. It's easy enough to dupe folks who can't read and have no contact with the outside world. Racism was one more tool to keep poor folk and slaves at each others' throats. Now it's become a part of the culture.

    A reckoning is overdue. Whether this is the beginning or not I don't know. But I do know it warms my heart to see black and white embracing this movement and tackling the protests together, as it always should have been.
That is perceptive and spot on. We have only to look at history to teach us this lesson. Particularly, in the Carribean after the French Revolution granted freedom to all the plantation slaves under their dominion. If the poor white immigrants had joined with the freedmen, Haiti and the DR would have evolved quite differently. Joining together as regular working joes/cane farmers being the glue uniting them would have enriched them both. (which may have had consequences in the infant U.S.). Of course, I could also make effective counter-arguments against what I just said.

I love playing with "what ifs", pointless though they may be... sorry, I'm such a history nerd.

blog on!


kzoopair 73M/71K
25831 inlägg
7/6/2020 6:35 pm
    Citera keithcancook:
    That is perceptive and spot on. We have only to look at history to teach us this lesson. Particularly, in the Carribean after the French Revolution granted freedom to all the plantation slaves under their dominion. If the poor white immigrants had joined with the freedmen, Haiti and the DR would have evolved quite differently. Joining together as regular working joes/cane farmers being the glue uniting them would have enriched them both. (which may have had consequences in the infant U.S.). Of course, I could also make effective counter-arguments against what I just said.

    I love playing with "what ifs", pointless though they may be... sorry, I'm such a history nerd.

    blog on!
Not necessarily pointless but I know what you mean. Some "what ifs" are irritating- what if the American Revolution had failed, Newt Gingrich's ridiculous what if Lee had won at Gettysburg, what if the Nazis had won.

There have been a lot of squandered opportunities in history that can make you wistful. But the fact is it's just fantasy. It didn't happen. Sigh.

The first same surname ancestor of mine was transported here for stealing a till with sixpence in it. What if he hadn't? What if he'd robbed a different store? What if he'd gotten away with it?
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sexysixties2 106K
Be mig om ett foto
39750 inlägg
8/6/2020 9:40 am

 I'm old enough to remember Rosa Parks, Martin Luther King's dream, the end of Apartheid in South Africa and so many other happenings which I thought might bring about an end to racism. When I was young I marched and protested in my desire to change the world...sadly I did not succeed and having removed my rose tinted glasses I know that no matter how hard we fight for it an end to racism is not in sight. Not yet.
"Age does not protect you from love, but love, to some extent, protects you from age."

~~Anais Nin~~


kzoopair 73M/71K
25831 inlägg
8/6/2020 10:20 am
    Citera sexysixties2:
    I'm old enough to remember Rosa Parks, Martin Luther King's dream, the end of Apartheid in South Africa and so many other happenings which I thought might bring about an end to racism. When I was young I marched and protested in my desire to change the world...sadly I did not succeed and having removed my rose tinted glasses I know that no matter how hard we fight for it an end to racism is not in sight. Not yet.
I remember those things too. I don't imagine an end to racism. That's too much to expect. I do imagine change, step by step and inch by inch. t's excruciating but that's how it happens. After the cataclysmic events of the last couple of weeks it seems anticlimactic to simply defund and disband the Minneapolis police department. But it might provoke a new dialogue about how we got to this place and how we might do it better.
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rick315875 65M

9/6/2020 8:54 am

 Great post. I agree. There is a culture. A blue wall. Where police officers say nothing and do nothing when they see or hear the brutality and murder committed by their fellow officers.


kzoopair 73M/71K
25831 inlägg
9/6/2020 10:59 am
    Citera rick315875:
    Great post. I agree. There is a culture. A blue wall. Where police officers say nothing and do nothing when they see or hear the brutality and murder committed by their fellow officers.
Thanks. I remember the law and order sentiments of the sixties and seventies. It was a backlash reaction to perceived "permissiveness" in the social order. And it was nauseating. Hordes of judgmental pricks wanting to wreak vengeance on people who had the temerity to be different and express themselves. That's what got us here. Conservatives who are unwilling to make sure that children are fed, clothed and housed are always more than willing to pay cops to beat the shit out of those kids instead. And it deteriorated into militarizing police forces in a frenzied fetish of domination and violence.
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tickles4us 62M
7262 inlägg
10/6/2020 6:49 am

 I understand and agree. America's not so blatant but so obvious form of Apartheid needs to end.
Vive La Difference


kzoopair 73M/71K
25831 inlägg
10/6/2020 11:19 am
    Citera tickles4us:
    I understand and agree. America's not so blatant but so obvious form of Apartheid needs to end.
A man would have to willfully ignorant not to see it.
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kzoopair 73M/71K
25831 inlägg
10/6/2020 2:28 pm
    Citera  :
Good for you! We didn't attend any protests this time around. We've tried to go to as many protests and rallies as we could in the past. The protests both here in Kalamazoo and in Grand Rapids nearby had issues with hell raisers, vandals and looters. People need to understand the difference between the Black Lives Matter protestors and the instigators of violence. BLM is committed to peaceful protest and eschews violence. The rioters are just violent. That's all. They're there to cause trouble- for Black Lives Matter. These are protests where the violence was committed by both enemies of BLM- the right wing and the cops.
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KItkat1415 61K  
20051 inlägg
14/6/2020 3:58 pm

 Know justice, Know peace.
No justice, no peace.

Wasn't that from the 60's?

I see there was a particularly stupid person that commented and then deleted his own comment. Well you did tell him to fuck himself, so maybe he thought he should go learn to do that.

ha!
kk
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kzoopair 73M/71K
25831 inlägg
14/6/2020 7:53 pm
    Citera KItkat1415:
    Know justice, Know peace.
    No justice, no peace.

    Wasn't that from the 60's?

    I see there was a particularly stupid person that commented and then deleted his own comment. Well you did tell him to fuck himself, so maybe he thought he should go learn to do that.

    ha!
    kk
His comment was automatically deleted when I blocked him. This isn't a platform for dickheads to broadcast their idiotic opinions. I'm not the United States government- I don't have to guarantee his free speech. He can write his own goddamned blog. I quoted the moron so readers could see why he was blocked.

Know Justice Know peace has been around for a while. I'm not sure when it first appeared. I think it was later, maybe the eighties or sometime around there. (Wait! Wikipedia says: "Linguist Ben Zimmer writes that use of the slogan "No justice, no peace" during protests goes back as far as the 1986 murder of Michael Griffith. ... Other sources suggest that the phrase was actually popularized by activist Robert "Sonny" Carson, who is quoted on February 12, 1987 as stating, "'No justice! No peace!'

The legacy of no justice for black Americans is ancient, in American terms. Even a lackluster student of American history would have to be mentally impaired to not recognize this. We have war crimes and an International Court to try them. Maybe we need a court for "Peace Crimes" too since many of the atrocities committed against black citizens in this country have been committed in times of so-called "peace".
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dayzeeme 55K
7024 inlägg
27/11/2020 3:30 pm

 so fucking true!!!


kzoopair 73M/71K
25831 inlägg
28/11/2020 12:48 am

 Nice to see you here, honey. It's been too long!
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couplecrazies 71M/58K  
7 inlägg
27/12/2020 9:53 am

 Funny that nobody seems upset that black communities have been victims of white rioting and mass murder (think Tulsa)for centuries or that urban development (usually to improve things for white businesses and/or people(think urban freeways)are deliberately built through minority neighborhoods.


kzoopair 73M/71K
25831 inlägg
27/12/2020 8:11 pm
    Citera couplecrazies:
    Funny that nobody seems upset that black communities have been victims of white rioting and mass murder (think Tulsa)for centuries or that urban development (usually to improve things for white businesses and/or people(think urban freeways)are deliberately built through minority neighborhoods.
White people aren't typically upset by that since clearly they're the ones who benefit, but poor folks get it and black folk live with it every day. The wealthy and powerful write the law and that has almost exclusively been white western Europeans in America. I think a hard rain's gonna fall.
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